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*** Log file opened: 9/14/97 12:03:37 PM
Stardancer - I take it everyone has read the lesson? LadyLoneWolf - uumm..nope not by me.. onmyown - shame on thee Lady s - LadyLoneWolf - where can I find it? and i'll go read it real quick SevenEagle - hehehe onmyown - Visit the Cyberwitch Wicca and Spirit Path Lessons webpage - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8015 Stardancer - well, today it is on The Days of Power, Esbats and Sabbats LadyLoneWolf - well, I am still trying to figure out this stuff and just got the msg this morning onmyown - Lesson 8 Stardancer - Lesson 8 childlike^ read it but was allot to absorb for me omo Stardancer - that's why we will go over it childlike :) childlike^ - k hehe onmyown - MM Spirit LadyLoneWolf - and besides it's only 11 here... was thinking I still had another hour to read :) LadyLoneWolf - MM SpiritTalker Stardancer - :) SpiritTalker - mm childlike^ - MM Spirit :o) Stardancer - MM mh childlike^ - mm mh LadyLoneWolf - MM mh mh - MM Stardances, childlike^, LadyLoneWolf LadyLoneWolf - lol.. Stardancer :) Stardancer - :) SpiritTalker - mm mh mh - mm SpirtTalker Stardancer: will wait another minute Stardancer - just about to get started Stardancer - ok, let's go for it SpiritTalker - oh good Stardancer - Today's lesson is on The Days of Power, Esbats and Sabbats Stardancer - Actually, every day should be a day of power for all of us, Stardancer - however we will get to that later in the Every Day Prayer Stardancer - section. There are many special days of power and celebration Stardancer - wiccans observe. Stardancer - The book, To Stir A Magick Cauldron, by Silver RavenWolf lists magick rituals Stardancer - for each day of the week, certain days for certain things; certain times of the moon Stardancer - for specific workings. Stardancer - is anyone familiar with the Days of Power? LadyLoneWolf - only from what I have read SpiritTalker - full moons right? QuietWaters - Somewhat, Star. Stardancer - not really, ST, these are days for specific workings SpiritTalker sighs not really understanding this Stardancer - I personally feel that any day could be a power day AngelWings - would they be Sabbats and esabats? Stardancer - Here is a brief list from the book for Stardancer - these days and and magickal workings: onmyown nods, agreed Star Stardancer - Sunday - Health, success, career, goals, drama, law, crops, totem animals Stardancer - some choose certain days to do works on certain days Stardancer - I really feel that when the need arises is the time to do something about them Stardancer - Monday - Psychic pursuits, dreams, reincarnation, domestic concerns QuietWaters - I agree, Star. mh - I also believe that focusing on the various topics should not be limited to a particular day, but as the need arises. However, it might be a good idea to list them out and deal with them. Stardancer - the rest I will let you read from the lesson since it seems that most feel the same about this issue Stardancer - yes, I agree mh mh - thank you LadyLoneWolf - but it's thought that those days are more conducive or powerful for specific workings? Stardancer - that is believed by some, LLW onmyown would interject? Stardancer - go ahead omo AngelWings - sort of like doing work during specific moon phases? LadyLoneWolf listens AngelWings - oh sorry onmyown - that concept is somewhat of a dogmatic approach to what basically is an entirely personal issue..... onmyown - i might wake up on say Wednesday with an all consuming urge to practice something onmyown - that does not fall within those guidelines LadyLoneWolf - maybe it just to be a guide to help especially with people new to the craft.. as they are trying to learn and understand onmyown - by no means will i hesitate to do so based on whether or not it is a certain day of the week onmyown - so my point being, don't feel constrained by those definitions, take them as a sort of guide QuietWaters has a comment Stardancer - ok QW Stardancer - good comments, omo and LLW QuietWaters - I feel the same as omo and Star. If it feels right to do it now, then do it now. QuietWaters - I've read some things that tell you to do something on a Monday, with an east wind, during a waning moon. AngelWings - I agree QuietWaters - If I had to wait for that, it might never get done...lol. onmyown - S - Stardancer - that's for sure QW Stardancer - you have to use your best judgement Stardancer - so, then what do the days of power mean to us? AngelWings - perhaps as guides? Stardancer - simply, to me, is that every day I should use power to come about means that I seek guidance for Stardancer - yes, AW that is certainally a guide line for when you can wait Wyrd - hello :) Stardancer - it would be similar to waiting on a certain day to pray for something, and I can tell you if I need it now, I pray for it now! onmyown - (hello Wyrd please pull up a chair S - ) Stardancer - then, we shall move on to Esbats if there are no other comments or questions on Days of Power Wyrd - thanks onmyown QuietWaters - I agree with you, Star. Not much to add. :) Stardancer - Esbats are days (or nights) that honor the changing cycle of the moon and our lives. Celebrating these times keep us in Stardancer - tune with the ever changing cycles of life, growth, death and Stardancer - rebirth. Stardancer - ok Stardancer - sorry Stardancer - go ahead omo onmyown - i can sense on some days a greater sense of energy..... onmyown - it has nothing to do with predetermined schedules... onmyown - it's more a fluctuation in the earth systems Stardancer - agree omo and with the moons energies onmyown - those days are as close as i'd come to calling them 'days of power' Stardancer - we could apply those same thoughts to the Esbats too Stardancer - when the need occurs.... Stardancer - do what you will. Stardancer - the moon cycles, to me, have a bit of a different meaning Stardancer - Much literature refers only to full moon rituals for Stardancer - esbats, and I also include the new moon. New moon marks Stardancer - beginnings, working toward a goal, personal growth, a good Stardancer - time to start any project or your wiccan path (my very first Stardancer - ritual was done on the new moon). Stardancer - there is more time to do specific workings while waiting for a moon phase Stardancer - long term goals or workings can be started with a moon cycle and results may take the full cycle to complete Stardancer - Full moon rituals are to Stardancer - bring in the greatest, most powerful energies. Associated Stardancer - almost fully with the Goddess, her fullness reminds us of our Stardancer - desire to be bulging with hope, power and light within and Stardancer - without. This is a time of heightened psychic energy and a Stardancer - good time to strengthen our abilities and to banish the Stardancer - unwanted influences in your life. All types of positive magick Stardancer - should be done at this cycle of the moon. If the full moon can Stardancer - change the ebb and flow of the seas, imagine what we can do Stardancer - by channeling some of her energy into our lives! Stardancer - there are so many types of rituals that can be done at any moon phase... Stardancer - and I still think it is entirely up to us how we choose to do any of them. Stardancer - any thoughts/comments/questions? QuietWaters has a question Stardancer - ok QuietWaters - What, if any, difference is there during an eclipse? LadyLoneWolf - may I comment based on what I have read so far? Stardancer - an eclipse (to me) is a special event of its own and any workings done during that time is certainally blessed onmyown would comment on that...but go for it Lady QuietWaters - We're too similar, Star...lol...that's pretty much what I thought. Stardancer - sure LLW LadyLoneWolf - if I understand correctly, during an eclipse the power is stronger as the moon and sun are in perfect alignment.. joined so to speak.. Stardancer - :) QW onmyown - (well, i won't be redundant S - ).... but.... Stardancer - :) LadyLoneWolf grins onmyown - classically unique celestial events have a greater portent for the success of magickal workings onmyown - whether that is simply interpretation or actually true is up to the individual doing the workings (as in most things) Stardancer - agree Stardancer - long ago many people were frightened by an eclipse, thought the moon or sun would be covered for ever, but now a days they are magickal in themselves onmyown - as the cycle of the moon phases........ Stardancer - don't we all love to watch one as it happens? it gives a mystical effect to most onmyown - it is also traditional not to perform workings during the dark of the moon Stardancer - that is true omo LadyLoneWolf - i am always awestruck when I see one QuietWaters - Yes, Star...it does. :) onmyown - i consider that a .....hmm let me put words to this Stardancer - the dark moon is often used for negative workings SpiritTalker - ok can I ask a question? onmyown - the dark of the moon is the 48-72 hour period during the change of phase from last wane to first wax Stardancer - just a sec, ST, when omo is finished :) onmyown - (just to clarify that) onmyown - although it *has* been associated with 'dark' workings, I see little or no reason not tpractice during that time.. Stardancer - me too onmyown - given that the influence may well be lessened during that time AngelWings - I have always been told never try to practice any magick during that time LadyLoneWolf - it is my understanding.. that the dark of the moon is a time for you to relax and perhaps regenerate.... but that you can't work during that time but should perhaps rest Stardancer - some believe that AW onmyown - and i agree with Star that some workings may well require a full cycle to reach their apex SpiritTalker really wants to ask something Stardancer - go ahead Spirit onmyown - i'm done, ask away Spirit SpiritTalker - ok am I the only one that does NOT see that time as a darkmoon? SpiritTalker - I see it as a rebirthing time SpiritTalker - in conjunction with the new moon Stardancer - that's what LLW was referring to (I think) ST, a time to rest and rejuvenate SpiritTalker - k Stardancer - it is a part of our own cycles too Stardancer - at times we feel more powerful than others LadyLoneWolf - yes Star.. but that's based only on what I have read ... since I am so new to this.. I can not speak from any personal experience as yet SpiritTalker - just curious I see it like the mother is about to bring forth something magnificent and to sit quietly onmyown - whatever works.... Stardancer - a very good point Spirit SpiritTalker - :) QuietWaters - I've also read it is a time for deep meditations...or, as ST just put it, to be still. Stardancer - yep LadyLoneWolf nods Stardancer - sometimes we have a hard time 'being still' and we surely need to! QuietWaters - yup QuietWaters - to both..lol onmyown - my only point being i'm not *compelled* to be inactive during that time if i feel a need to practice during that time.. Stardancer - it's like a receiving answers time too SpiritTalker - I personally have found that if I am still during that time I soemtiems get real powerful visions on the new moon onmyown - it would hardly be my time of choice mind you Stardancer - agree omo Stardancer - shall we go on to Sabbats? or are there any other comments? Stardancer - ok then Stardancer - Sabbats are our wonderful holidays. From beginning to end Stardancer - the stories of the Goddess and God, their influence on the Stardancer - Earth and us. There are many versions of these stories, but Stardancer - they all tell the same basic theme of birth, growth, death and Stardancer - rebirth; a cycling of the seasons, physically and emotionally. Stardancer - Yule (*circa December 21- Winter Solstice) is the time of Stardancer - celebrating the birth of the God, the Sun and a time also of his Stardancer - rebirth year to year. Stardancer - of course, I think almost all of us are familiar with this one! Stardancer - does being wiccan change any of our attitudes about Christmas? SpiritTalker - nope AngelWings - well, it certainly means you're not celebrating the birth of Christ QuietWaters - Not really. SpiritTalker - hehe true AW but you are celebrating Stardancer - do we change the celebration of the Christ child to the celebration of a God? SpiritTalker - as SD said SpiritTalker - I celebrate it as a time of giving and rebirth of the world SpiritTalker shrugs AngelWings - hmmm I think of the Sabbats more like the way some ppl think about New Year's Day Stardancer - and actually our holiday is a couple of days before Dec. 25 AngelWings - reflecting on the season past, and looking ahead to the next season Stardancer - and what is that AW? QuietWaters - Certainly the "trappings" of Christmas are a bit pagan...hehehe. Stardancer - yep AngelWings - lol agree QW onmyown - G - Stardancer - and our new year holiday is Samhain, in Oct. SpiritTalker - well first off I don't call it Christmas I call it Yule onmyown - more than *bit* Stardancer - yes, ST we do call it Yule SpiritTalker - but that is because its my personal preference SpiritTalker - :) LadyLoneWolf - I kind of see it like the time of rebirth.. sort of associating it with the dark of the moon... it's a time of rebirth... and time to reflect and plan what you would like to accompolish in the new beginning.. though I could be interperting it wrong AngelWings - I'm still in the habit of calling it Christmas AngelWings - that's exactly what I said Lady =) AngelWings - only not as detailed Stardancer - :) SpiritTalker - yep LLW exactly LadyLoneWolf - lol.. AW.. sorry was so busy typing I missed it :) AngelWings - hehehehe AngelWings - just proves we think alike =) onmyown - yule is more closely associated with winter solstice onmyown - (the dates happen to more or less coincide) Stardancer - yes onmyown - at which time the sun begins emerging from its sleep AngelWings - my kids would have a fit if I changed the days on them, and since I've always celebrated it at the same time, would be difficult to change it AngelWings - sorry running off on a tangent here onmyown - hence the association with rebirth, new enlightenment, new growth SpiritTalker - hehehe understood AW is why I have a big dinenr on the solstice and opening presents on the 25th Stardancer - in our home we celebrate Yule on it's date and still have a Christmas celebration with our families SpiritTalker - kinda a compromise onmyown - Celtic tradition has some remarkable celebrations to greet winter solstice SpiritTalker - :) Stardancer - how and when you celebrate is totally up to you AngelWings - okay, was wondering how you all did that, since everyone's family can't all be pagan SpiritTalker - heheSD just answered for you :) onmyown - the burning o the yule log is in fact a carry-over from ancient tradtion Stardancer - sure do omo and the Native Americans too AngelWings - I'd like to discuss the Yule further with you, Star, later if I may Stardancer - sure AW LadyLoneWolf - me too onmyown - please continue Star..... Stardancer - Imbolc (February 2, aka Ground Hog Day) represents the Stardancer - recovery time of the Goddess after giving birth to the God. Also a time of Stardancer - purification after winter and looking for the first signs of spring. Stardancer - I love this day and always have!!!! Candlemas, lighting all the candles in the house! Stardancer - looking forward to spring SpiritTalker likes to see if the groundhog is going to see his shadow or not QuietWaters - I self-initiated on Imbolc. :) Stardancer - lol me too Stardancer - that's great QW AngelWings - what is the significance of Candlemas? AngelWings - briefly? Stardancer - honoring the suns rebirth onmyown - something of a pre-cursor to spring solstice, which i'll let Star get into AngelWings - which is why you light candles all over the house? Stardancer - that's why I do AW AngelWings - ah, I get, thank you onmyown - well, i do...... onmyown - (set off the smoke alarm last year G - ) childlike^ - hehe Stardancer - (and it's amazing just how many candles we do have!) SpiritTalker giggles AngelWings - lol Stardancer - Ostara (circa March 21) Spring Equinox honors the first day Stardancer - of Spring. The Goddess blesses the Earth with fertility, and Stardancer - the God strengthens and grows. This is a time for new Stardancer - beginnings, works of fruitfulness and abundance. Stardancer - don't we just love the beginning of spring????? QuietWaters - :) SpiritTalker - :) LadyLoneWolf - I do.. but then I love all the seasonal changes onmyown smiles broadly...don't we indeed! SpiritTalker has her favorite though :) AngelWings - hmmm I'd have to say the beginning of fall is my fave onmyown - Star, i know you had posed questions at the end, but let's comment in turn as you go through them? Stardancer - a wonderful celebration of life Stardancer - sure Stardancer - questions/comments? onmyown - much like the Esbats, we all assign significance, lesser or greater, to each Sabbat... Stardancer - yep onmyown - to me Ostara is one of the more 'powerful' times of the turn of the wheel... SpiritTalker - yep onmyown - it is truly the rebirth, not only of the earth, but of our individual consciousness Stardancer - I agree, it is very much a powerful time onmyown - as in al things this is purely a personal matter, but i find a greater sense of energy at that time than at any other time Stardancer - Eagle and I had a very powerful Ostara ritual with friends and family this past season and they felt the power too Stardancer - many do omo SevenEagle doesn't know when ostara is, not good with "words" Stardancer - it is truly a time of change SpiritTalker - Spring equinox March 21st 7 SevenEagle - hehehe SevenEagle - ok onmyown - and no doubt it has to do with the cyclical turn of the wheel, the culmination of events Stardancer - around the Easter season, Eagle, remember the egg shaped candles? SevenEagle - yep Stardancer - we planted seeds and had a wonderful time SpiritTalker is waiting on the next one :) Stardancer - any other comments? onmyown - it is as much a closing of a book.....as it is the opening of one QuietWaters - Perhaps because this is my first year officially celebrating the Sabbats, I've found something truly special in each one. Each has its different appeal or power to it. Stardancer - agree QW Stardancer - Beltane (April 30 aka May Day) marks the growth of the Stardancer - God into manhood, the union of the Goddess and God. This is Stardancer - a time for passion, desires to be consummated SpiritTalker dances Stardancer - lol Stardancer - wonder why ST likes this one so much! onmyown - S - SpiritTalker - was the very first Sabbat I ever celebrated SpiritTalker - :) onmyown - 'tis the Beltane fires methinks Stardancer - great LadyLoneWolf grins SpiritTalker - actually it is the dancing around the beltaine pole Stardancer - for sure omo! SpiritTalker - :) Stardancer - does anyone else remember doing this as a child? SpiritTalker waves her hand Stardancer - my how things have changed SpiritTalker - yep yep yep childlike^ - yes Wyrd - uh huh :) onmyown - aye, with no knowledge of the 'pagan' rite i was following Stardancer - for sure omo! AngelWings - did it at a Renaissance festival once AngelWings - was fun Stardancer - and we were never told that either at least not me SpiritTalker - oh I was SpiritTalker - :) onmyown - S - like as not most did not know (or were afraid to speak) Stardancer - I think it is so great to have the fun and freedom of our holidays again and know their meanings as adults now! onmyown - yes, but you have a *unique* background Spirit SpiritTalker - hehe true SpiritTalker - but this was the first one I learned and celebrated SpiritTalker - :) SpiritTalker - so is special to me AngelWings - I think most know it was a ritual done a long time ago, but know one said why AngelWings - no one that is Stardancer - probably because of the sexual overtones this holiday brings SpiritTalker nods AngelWings - sex?! eeeewwwww!!! lol LadyLoneWolf giggles Stardancer - union and mating were not openly discussed long ago SpiritTalker - yep has a lot of sexual overtones AngelWings - next sabbat!!! onmyown - Beltane is a special time of joy, of liberation, of overindulging and careless (as in not to worry) Stardancer - hahahah AngelWings - lol childlike^ - hehe SpiritTalker - k Stardancer - yes omo, a good time to get rid of inhibitions SpiritTalker grins SpiritTalker - and a good time to dance around the fires nakey too Stardancer - Midsummer (circa June 21, Summer Solstice) brings to us Stardancer - the heightened power of nature, the Goddess and God Stardancer - working together. Everything is growing and blooming into Stardancer - its fullest potential, a wonderful time for all types of magick. Stardancer - lol ST! SpiritTalker - :) AngelWings - ack! remind me not to celebrate Beltane with you ST!!! SpiritTalker - LOL! childlike^ - lol Wyrd - hehehe onmyown reminds himself to edit some parts of this log G - SpiritTalker - k Midsumemr SpiritTalker - summer even Stardancer - summer solstice is a hot time for growing and feeling great power! childlike^ - hehe QuietWaters - Naahhh...leave 'em in, omo...lol..what's to hide? Stardancer - for sure omo, we now know why Beltane is so much fun! SpiritTalker - :) onmyown - lol SpiritTalker - I got a question about Midsummer QuietWaters - Midsummer seemed a very magical time to me. Stardancer - ok ST SpiritTalker - I have always heard it called "midsummer's eve" why is that? Stardancer - hmmm don't know that I have heard it referred to in that way onmyown - hahhhaa.... onmyown - actually as usual i have something to say G - Stardancer - ok AngelWings - midsummer brings to mind fairies, for me SpiritTalker smiles and listens SpiritTalker - butterflys SpiritTalker - :) onmyown - june 21 *is* Midsummers Eve, as the following day is past midsummer Stardancer - yep SpiritTalker - oh SpiritTalker - is eve short for evening? onmyown - aye SpiritTalker - k SpiritTalker - what I always thought but had to ask :) onmyown - nae worries s - that's rather what this is all about after all Stardancer - any more thoughts/comments on Midsummer? onmyown - wel just a few.... Stardancer: lol onmyown - S - AngelWings - lol Stardancer - go ahead omo :) onmyown - it's a bittersweet time of year for me....... Wyrd - why so? onmyown - on the one hand, the peak of the year..... onmyown - on the other i forsee the remainder onmyown - it is sort of a benchmark in the turn of the wheel Stardancer - it is a good time for pouring out trouble, pains, sorrows...not something we look forward to mostly. onmyown - it is a time to release, not in the same sense as beltane onmyown - but to let go of 'baggage' we are carrying about SpiritTalker nods listening onmyown - to prepare for the remainder of the turn Stardancer - yep Stardancer - ready to go on? SpiritTalker - yep onmyown - please.. Stardancer - Lughnasadh/Lammas (August 1) also referred to as First AngelWings - yep Stardancer - Harvest (surely easier to pronounce) the God begins to lose Stardancer - strength as the Sun rises higher in the sky and days begin to Stardancer - shorten. Summer is passing, a reminder to us that as surely as Stardancer - we grow and strengthen, there comes a time to regroup for Stardancer - fresh starts. Stardancer - the ending of summer has always had sort of a strange effect on me. Stardancer - not exactly sure why either childlike^ - me too star AngelWings - is there a Sabbat in September? childlike^ - may I say? SpiritTalker - yes QuietWaters - The end of summer is an awakening time for me....but I tend to be a bit odd...lol Stardancer - yes AW LadyLoneWolf - it does me too.. I feel like the end has come.. but everything is going into seclusion.. resting.. so that it can be reborn.. _Lisa_ sets mode: -o _Lisa_ SpiritTalker - my son was actualy almost born on it AngelWings - it's like the 21st or 22nd right? SpiritTalker - 21st Stardancer - yes AW, Mabon is next Sept. 21 or the first day of autumn onmyown - let's speak about Lammas a moment.... Stardancer - ok omo SpiritTalker - yes lets AngelWings - sorry, didn't mean to rush you omo =) SpiritTalker - this past Lamas I dropped a bunch of baggage onmyown - since of all the events in our calendars the Sabbats are perhaps more significant than some other things Stardancer - good ST Stardancer - agree omo LadyMoonWolf [julianb@spr-mo1-19.ix.netcom.com] has joined #afterfive onmyown - Lammas is a more joyous time than midsummer t me, but also has a certain....... onmyown - quality of ...... LadyMoonWolf - Merry Meet onmyown - (MMa Lady) onmyown - quality of finality? SpiritTalker - yes OMO exactly onmyown - difficult to verbalise... LadyLoneWolf grins.. that's a different Lady :) onmyown - it's a turn in the wheel SpiritTalker - is like to me the death of the old and the begining of a new Journey SpiritTalker - but that is to me onmyown - but as each turn makes its passage, it has its unique qualities and aspects QuietWaters - In a sense, that's true. It is the first harvest...a time when things begun earlier come to fruition. Stardancer - agree, and even the change in the shadows causes an effect on me. onmyown - Lammas has the sense of both an ending *and* a beginning SpiritTalker nods LadyLoneWolf - yes it does to me also Stardancer - maybe its something from a different life carried over to this one onmyown - perhaps, i cannot say, it has a unique effect on me SpiritTalker - dunno sometimes I feel like I want to crya nd yet sing with joy at the same time Stardancer - yep and it's 'unique' that we all seem to feel it AngelWings - hmmm I don't AngelWings - lol onmyown - of an anecdotal nature, and i'll excerpt this from the log if you wish, that was the last Sabbat Wolf and Dancer celbrated in DE Stardancer - now to answer AW's eariler question.... Stardancer - no need to take it out omo onmyown - it is quite an event in Teutonic cultures Stardancer - Mabon (circa September 21) Fall Equinox finds the God Stardancer - preparing to leave his physical body in search of renewal and Stardancer - rebirth. Nature wanes and now is the time of the full harvest. SpiritTalker - ok SpiritTalker - I do have something to say about this one SpiritTalker - and a question LadyLoneWolf - it seems to me... to make an anology.. that the Fall harvest is a time that the Goddess (Mother) sighs taking a rest..her children (trees, flowers, foods, everything ) has grown and matured and now it's a time for rest.. time to gather energy and prepare for the end of the cycle and the beginning of the new cycle.. LadyLoneWolf - sorry.. this is just coming to me slowly :) AngelWings - hehehehe I love fall, I wanna do a huge celebration on this one =) Stardancer - good LLW Stardancer - the final harvest!!! reaping the fruits of our actions. Lionhawk - Autumn is a time of restlessness for me. onmyown - s - it will come a dam a'bursting soon LLW SpiritTalker - Ok now my son was born right around Mabon Lionhawk - Or wanderlust, maybe. AngelWings - I feel tremendous excitement in the fall SpiritTalker - so to me is like hectic time QuietWaters - I'm planning a big celebration for this one, too, AW. My canning will be done, as well as the annual fall cleaning. It will be a time for me to relax and recoup...lol. AngelWings - I bet QW!!!!! LadyLoneWolf - lol SpiritTalker - sorry QW the words relaxation and Mabon are like incongrual to me hehe SpiritTalker - ummmmm just don't fit? onmyown - the quarters o the wheel are rather significant AngelWings - hmmm it occures to me that all the feelings everyone else has for Beltane, all that joy and happiness, is what I feel during fall Stardancer - yes, greatly, omo QuietWaters - Try canning tons of tomatoes and peppers for a few weeks, ST. You'll want to relax ...lol onmyown - not just in chronological time...... SpiritTalker - if I can stop and take a breath I am surprised Lionhawk - Agree, ST...almost a time of searching... SpiritTalker - ehhe onmyown - but in the spiritual time of our lives passage SpiritTalker is NOT canning this year :) AngelWings - it's almost as if I fall in love with the earth and nature at this time of year SpiritTalker - well to me I never can seem to get anything done as my mind tends to wander off and go surfing somewhere onmyown - autumn solstice is a time of passage, it measures the movement of the earth into another tuen... AngelWings - hmmm that sounds way off from what is supposed to be celebrated at this time onmyown - turn, a critical turn SpiritTalker - yeah but it happens every year to me SpiritTalker - hehehe AngelWings - I didn't meant you ST onmyown - please continue Star.. SpiritTalker - k Stardancer - Mabon (circa September 21) Fall Equinox finds the God Stardancer - preparing to leave his physical body in search of renewal and rumor` is now known as denn Stardancer - rebirth. Nature wanes and now is the time of the full harvest. Stardancer - oppps LadyLoneWolf - lol QuietWaters - deja vu... Stardancer - Samhain (October 31, Halloween); Witches New Year is one Stardancer - of my most favorite holidays! The time of year we bid a Stardancer - temporary good bye to the God as he awaits rebirth at Yule. SpiritTalker - hehe Stardancer - A time to remember and honor those loved ones, friends Stardancer - whom have left the physical bodies of which we are familiar Stardancer - to be reborn. Also, this is time to take a look at the past year Stardancer - and leave behind those 'things' we wish NOT to carry into Stardancer - the new year with us. Thus, the cycle begins again. Stardancer - this is definately one of my MOST favorites!!!! SpiritTalker - is my son's favorite for sure SpiritTalker - :) LadyLoneWolf - May I ask a question? Stardancer - sure LadyLoneWolf - does anyone know why this is also called All Hallow's Eve? -CHANOPS- i'm going to stay quiet on this one until all are done SevenEagle - a time when the veil is usually at its thinnest, to the spirit world SpiritTalker - yes LLW Stardancer - it's a Christian thing, LLW, used to be (I think) same as All Saints Day/eve LadyLoneWolf is going to have to find out now :) Lionhawk - All Saints Day is November 1st, I think; October 31 is something else... AngelWings - hehehe another attempt to change a pagan holiday into a Christian one, but it didn't work this time!!!!! imho, of course SpiritTalker - actually it was thought that on this day the demons walked the earth and that in order to keep them from your door you had to look like them LadyLoneWolf smiles LadyLoneWolf - so that is why it is that that the veil is the thinnest at this time? Lionhawk - Is that a pagan or Christian belief, ST? SpiritTalker - it originally was a celebration of the spirit world being close to ours but was twisted into the belief that only demons were about on that night Lionhawk - Ah. SpiritTalker - and it was used in conjunction with all saints day SpiritTalker - it actually for a time was called HELLoween AngelWings - the spirit world was supposedly so close, spirits could walk back and forth between both SpiritTalker - and those who survived the night were to celebrate the saints for them protecting them the next day AngelWings - hmmm I have never seen any references to that SpiritTalker - it is how it was attempted to twist it LadyLoneWolf - so is this thought to be a very "powerful" time for wiccans? SpiritTalker - It is a time of great Visions denn - can I ask a question? SpiritTalker - and closeness to the spirits aroudn us Stardancer - sure denn denn - little confused with why there seems to be a split between witches and wiccan...why is that? SpiritTalker - Witches is a broad term meaning any who practice magick SpiritTalker - Wiccan is a specific discipline or religion if you will LadyLoneWolf - hrmm to me there really isn't... that much of a difference.. I use the terms interchangeably SpiritTalker - or so I have always seen it denn - oh I see....:o) AngelWings - most do LLW SpiritTalker sits back going wow ok I said that don't ask me where it came from LadyLoneWolf giggles Stardancer - :) ST AngelWings - not only that, but some ppls definitions of witch are not the same as others, so you may be a witch to someone but not to someone else LadyLoneWolf - true denn - ok..but I was talking to a witch...I sensed bitterness between the two...is that true? onmyown - if all are done? AngelWings - I don't think of myself in that term, but my husband does, for example Stardancer - let's go on with thoughts/comments on Samhain and then open up for discussion onmyown - denn, please take this up in #cyberwitch denn - ok sorry denn - :o) Stardancer - is ok, denn :) denn - just curious...new to this onmyown - nae worries Denn s - denn - think you answered it anyways :o) SpiritTalker - samhain to me has always been the time to get closer to your totems spirit guides and lost loved ones SpiritTalker - (course they aren't lost just a figure of speech) AngelWings - I think of it as a celebration of the lives of those who have gone before us Stardancer - omo, you have some comments? SpiritTalker - well if I walk into a tree this year I am definitely going to have figure out why onmyown - a few s - SpiritTalker - hehe LadyLoneWolf grins AngelWings - ooookay ST onmyown - as SevenEagle said, this is the time when the veil is thinnest SpiritTalker will brb onmyown - it was (and is) known as the Feast of the Dead onmyown - this is largely a christian manipulation of what is an ancient pagan rite, celebrating and honoring our ancestors SpiritTalker nods onmyown - at this time we are closer to the spirit world than any other time, so for that reason it is a time of 'power' onmyown - to be able to move into the spirit world Lionhawk - Sounds right, omo... onmyown - it is used by different traditions to accomplish essentially the same thing onmyown - as in all things, the methodology is not as significant as the act onmyown - awareness of the timing, intention, preparation et al QuietWaters has a question when we've finished discussing Samhain onmyown - has more bearing on the outcome onmyown - go right ahead QuietWaters Lionhawk - What's meant to be accomplished during Samhain? onmyown - well wait a sec QW QuietWaters - :) Lionhawk - Sorry QW. QuietWaters - Go ahead, Lionhawk. It'll keep. onmyown - Samhain is a time for joining with the spirit world onmyown - that may sound a bit shamanistic...... onmyown - but it is not entirely excluded from wicca Lionhawk - To what end? Lionhawk - Or is the joining the purpose, not what happens when joined? onmyown - to find solice, answers, rejoining with ancestors Lionhawk - OK. :) Go ahead, QuietWaters. QuietWaters - This sort of goes back to something said earlier. When are the Sabbats traditionally celebrated? On the eve or the day? QuietWaters - For instance, Beltane is May 1st. Would you celebrate it that day or the night before? Stardancer - this is a statement from Scott Cunningham, please tell me your thoughts: "Many wiccans do attempt to communicate with their deceased ancestors and friends a this time, but it seems to me that if we accept the doctrine of reincarnation, this is a rather strange practice. Perhaps the personalities that we knew still exist, but if the soul is currently incarnate in another body, communication would be difficult. Thus it seems best to remember the Stardancer - them up." Stardancer - sorry, was saving that up SevenEagle - I do not know the answer to that, I have celebrated at different times, because of the way I felt or felt spirit lead Stardancer - I do it on the eve in that instance, QW Stardancer - depends on how you want to do it QuietWaters - hehehe....as with everything else...lol onmyown - i would agree with SevenEagle onmyown - it lies within oneself and as circumstance's dictate Stardancer - personally, the dates I put in the lesson are the ones I go by :) onmyown - if i were to dance skyclad in the middle of the afternoon, i suspect my neighbors would call the cops Stardancer - lol SpiritTalker - LOL QuietWaters - lol! QuietWaters - Good point. Stardancer - any comments on the Cunningham statement? LadyLoneWolf - lol SpiritTalker - well not all of our ancestors are reincarnated QuietWaters - I've read that before...and wondered about it, Star. SpiritTalker - we need to remember that mh - lol SpiritTalker - there are those who have decided to stay and watch over us a time Stardancer - I think so too ST onmyown - Scott was an excellent and well learned writer, but i don't agree with everything he ever wrote Star... SevenEagle - me either Stardancer - but it makes one wonder.... Stardancer - Eagle has discussed this with me and I feel that their presence may be what I really feel at times, whether they are in another body or not SpiritTalker - I think the main thing is to remeber our ancestors and that we are close to the spirits on that day Stardancer - spirit not presence Stardancer - agree Spirit Lionhawk - brb onmyown - i think that's what SevenEagle and I were trying to say Stardancer - this is all I have for the lesson today, I feel that we pretty much know the favorite holidays amoungst us all. Stardancer - :) SevenEagle - thanks for the good lesson Stardancer :-) QuietWaters - Thank you, Stardancer. Wonderful lesson! :) childlike^ - thankyou Star :o) Wyrd - yes..thank you *** Log file closed: 9/14/97 2:17:53 PM |